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think ic's of a certain level of experience let's say 8 to 10 years of experience really start to hit the
ceiling of leadership or management as the only path for them because levels
have been set up in that way and I think it's a big problem it is not the same on
the engineering side it's a very common ladder for high performance Engineers to
continue on an icy track it is just a much less common model for PMS I think
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